84 thoughts on “I’m a Christian Woman. Hear Me Roar.”

1. Love it, Natalie. Love you, too!

2. Hi Natalie, I just finished teaching from the True Woman 101 – Divine Design Bible Study by Nancy Leigh DeMoss and Mary Kassian. In Week 6 of the study they have the title “hear me roar” but it talks about it in the exact opposite manner that you do as this was the mantra of the feminist movement which stole so much from women. The feminist movement was fueled from bitterness and in love I want to tell you that you sound very bitter. I am sorry for the hurt and pain that you have gone through but I don’t think it is fair that you are using your bitterness as a way of trying to lead Christian women down the wrong path. You have totally misunderstood the quiet and gentle spirit, it does not mean that you are not an intelligent person that shares what is on her mind and honors God above all else. The quiet doesn’t mean you don’t speak but you are not needing to be “a champion” as Katy Perry puts it. God detests the proud but gives grace to the humble. Jesus said whoever is last will be first in his kingdom. Look at His example, was he yelling “I am a champion” from the cross? No! Your husband or the men that have hurt you are not the enemy but Satan is the enemy. Marriage is supposed to show a picture of Christ and the church and how unfailing Christ’s love is. If you were abused in any way by a man, then that was not God’s will and it is grounds for divorce. Please do not continue to lead Christian women down the wrong path. God places a high value on women as He made them equal to men in value but different in roles. You are angry and James 1:20 says “for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God”. Natalie, the only answer, is repentance of your anger, bitterness and hardheartedness. If you cannot forgive whomever has hurt you then God will not forgive you. I ask you to please heal and take time to recover before you continue to lead women astray for which God will hold you accountable. Teachers are called to a stricter judgement and as a blogger you are a teacher to many. My heart goes out to you. Blessings, Carla

   • Carla, I think you swallowed the bones with the meat. Ouch.

   • Carla, I have to comment on your comment. I roared in my marriage, I screamed, I fought back, I insisted, I was not gentle, I was angry, and more. However, I was not in sin. I was expressing a lot of pain. Pain that my spouse was inflicting on me because I had been taught, by the church, that submission and gentleness meant suffering under any circumstance. Had I not “roared” I would be divorced right now. Had I spoken up for myself earlier in my marriage, the behavior would never have become abusive. I think you are missing the point and I don’t think you understand abuse. If you did you wouldn’t be confusing bitterness and anger with sorrow and expression. A blog is not a position of authority in the way the Bible speaks of teaching and people who are looking for an excuse out of their marriages certainly don’t need Natalie, all they have to do is look at our society for that.

     • Wow. And AMEN! Oh – and ROAR! 😉

       • I did Natalie! I roared and it saved my marriage. I said no more and he did too. We BOTH decided we wanted to be different. It takes three – A husband, wife, and God. We can’t control other people. BTW, you Rock!

   • Carla –
     Do you know Natalie personally? I am just wondering what authority you have to speak in such a manner to her. Frankly, your accusations of her sin should be handled according to the Bible. You would have been wise and loving to approach her privately before accusing her in public of being a false teacher, angry, bitter, hard-hearted, etc. Your public accusations are anti Biblical.

     Additionally, I do not find that the Bible teaches forgiveness without repentance. Natalie should forgive those who have asked. However, if someone doesn’t ask, why should we forgive? God doesn’t forgive us until we repent and ask for forgiveness. Of course, we are not bitter, nor do we let it consume us and can still respond appropriately to that person, but there is no mandate to forgive one who is NOT sorry.

     Satan is not the only enemy. Those who are not in Christ, are anti-Christ. Your comments border on excusing abusers or anyone who does wrong and doesn’t repent.

     I plead with you to examine your words and the venue you use more carefully and through the lense of Scripture.

     • Thank you, Sara. Her comment was painful; yet if I defend myself, I would be accused of other things. This is how spiritually abusive people pin others into corners. I appreciate your coming to my defense – but more importantly, to the defense of others in my precarious position.

       • You said it perfectly when you stated she ate the bones with the meat.

     • Sara: Yes, repentance is required of us before God wipes away our sin. However, He extends it continually to us through the work of His Son Jesus. In our human to human relationships we must forgive, regardless of the other person’s ability/desire to ask. Otherwise we are controlled by the other person’s sin. Too often we ask for and accept forgiveness when we have not fully processed our emotions about the offense. That is not truly sincere or helpful. Forgiveness takes time and it is not necessarily between the offender and the offended. Sometimes it is between the offended and God or the offender and God. That is why we ought not judge where a person is in that process. Personally, I experienced another dose of pain when someone “asked for forgiveness” because it was just a way to relieve their own guilt, not to make things right. Also, repeated offenses have many layers and can take years to fully be processed and forgiven. What I hear you saying is that Natalie’s blog is not about forgiveness and you are right, it’s not. It’s about the value of our voice.

   • True Carla, we aren’t aiming to be champions.

     We ARE “MORE than conquerors.” So that’s better than a champion. Tsk tsk Natalie. Your ambition is too low.

     http://seedsfamilyworship.bandcamp.com/track/more-than-conquerors-romans-8-37 is a fun way to remember God’s truth about conquerors.

     Here’s a good post about the B word. http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2013/09/05/the-b-word/

     • Rock it, Ellie.

     • Thanks, Ellie. I was about to post that same article. Hugs, M.

   • Natalie–in response to some of these things Carla wrote–I’d like to set the record straight (Carla, please understand that once you publish a comment like this you have to be ready to take the proverbial heat. We all do).

     1. “The feminist movement was fueled from bitterness.” Implying that Natalie is fueling feminism? LIE. Natalie, you do NOT sound bitter at all. You are honest. You are NOT “using bitterness to lead women down the wrong path.” Please. This is ridiculous in the context of this blog.
     2. “You are not needing to be ‘a champion…'” Yes you are. End of discussion.
     3. “You have totally misunderstood the gentle and quiet spirit.” LIE. Natalie has never ever discouraged women from heeding this verse. I should know, I’ve been reading her blog for about three years now.
     4. “God detests the proud but gives grace to the humble.” Implying that you Natalie are proud? LIE. You Natalie are the one who is humbling yourself under the hand of the almighty God. And He cares for you. And He showers you with His grace.
     5. Was Christ yelling “I am a champion” from the cross? No. And neither was Natalie when she endured years and years of oppression. And now as she bears her cross she walks knowing that she IS a champion in Christ. Carla, do you even know what Natalie is going through on a daily basis right now? ARE YOU FOLLOWING HER BLOG? Because if you are and you still have the audacity to say that, then… I have nothing else to say.
     6. Marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church and “how unfailing Christ’s love is”. That’s right, and tell me who represents Christ? That’s right, the HUSBAND, NOT the wife. Careful with applying passages like that one without accuracy.
     7. “If you were abused in any way by a man, then that was not God’s will and it is grounds for divorce.” Was this an attempt at making amends for everything else written? And I don’t find in the Bible that abuse is grounds for divorce. Separation absolutely, but divorce is limited to unbelievers unwilling to live with Christian spouse / adultery. Or am I missing something?
     8. “Please do not continue to lead Christian women down the wrong path.” LIE. Natalie, you are leading Christian women toward a path of TRUTH!
     9. “God places a high value on women as He made them equal to men in value but different in roles.” Carla, you do realize you’re not speaking to a 15 year old girl, right? Natalie, thank you for your example of holding your tongue when someone tells you something as condescending as this.
     10. “You are angry.” This may be true, but in this specific post you Natalie do not sound angry, nor are you acting out in anger in the sinful sense.
     11. “for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.” Again, so condescending seeing as Natalie has never asserted that anger is the answer to our problems. Anger is a natural emotional response, a good thing when used properly!
     12. “Natalie, the only answer, is repentance of your anger, bitterness and hardheartedness.” Unbelievable accusations, LIES. Natalie, you take the risk each time you post an article that someone like this will comment outrageous things, but we’ve got your back!
     13. “If you cannot forgive whomever has hurt you then God will not forgive you.” First of all you’re taking that totally out of context. The Bible also says that God is kind even to the evil and the ungrateful. God is merciful and God forgives his children even when they sincerely struggle to forgive others. He is patient with us as we process through our wounds. Second of all, Natalie has always encouraged forgiveness and a healthy understanding of what it is (not a flippant superficial thing). Third, who are you to assert that Natalie is not forgiving?
     14. “I ask you to please heal and take time to recover before you continue to lead women astray for which God will hold you accountable.” Again. So condescending. Natalie, thank you for allowing us to walk alongside you as you heal and recover. We are glad you are not alone. Carla, God will also hold you accountable for your words. He will hold each of us accountable for every careless word. Please think about that before you falsely assert so many things.
     15. “Teachers are called to a stricter judgement.” That would apply to Nancy Leigh DeMoss. I’m not sure if it applies to Natalie, but if it does I assure you she takes the matter quite seriously.
     16. “My heart goes out to you.” This seems trite and rehearsed in light of Carla’s whole comment. Carla’s heart did not go out to Natalie, because out of the abundance of the heart speaks the mouth, and the phrase “my heart goes out to you” implies an attitude of kindness, understanding, and a humble willingness to suffer alongside another. This does not fit with Carla’s words. She would do well to sound more sincere next time.

     Natalie, you are a champ. And this will not be the last time I go over future potential comments like this one. Commenters like Carla take note. (:

     • Wowzer Bowzer. “Natalie, you take the risk each time you post an article that someone like this will comment outrageous things, but we’ve got your back!” I can’t tell you what this means to me. My jaw is on the floor right now. I don’t even know what else to say – I’m speechless.

       • Too right.
         Thanks for writing what so many of us agree, that was spot on.
         Thank you Julie.
         Thank you Natalie for putting out there what you are going through, even though you know these types of comments might come,
         in the light of helping women understand Christ better and who they are in Him.

     • Well said Julie!!!
       !

     • Re: #7, yes, you are missing something. http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2013/10/24/god-hates-divorce-not-always/ might be helpful to you.

3. Amen! Your title caught my eye. Awesome! I need to be bolder. Most of us do. I/we struggle with what it means to be quiet and submissive. I think many of us have been misled. God is using you to educate and encourage us. While I am blessed with a good marriage, many friends are not, and you are helping me to help them. So much of what you say rings true. My particular church background practically promotes the abuse of the whole headship/submission paradigm. This is ungodly and needs to be exposed and ended. Thank you for advocating for yourself and helping others in the process. The strong women of the Bible inspire me. That’s why my girls are Deborah and Abigail. Jael was awesome, but I couldn’t figure out how to use the name. One of my friends used it as a middle name for her little girl. I might try that if God blesses me with another. Anyway, may God continue to strengthen and uphold you on this journey as you are walking out of a dark place and helping others to see the light, as well. Thank you.

   • Thank you, Sarah. I LOVE those names. I love it that we can raise our daughters to walk in Truth – and to courageously speak Truth (ROAR!) in the face of deception. The most insidious deceptions pose as light. I am thrilled to report that my own church is finally waking up to how Scripture is twisted to perpetuate the abuse of women. They are going into action and making some changes. I am almost jumping out of my skin with praise to God for this breakthrough. I know that God has called me to be a voice for change, and I pray He will use this blog somehow to promote Truth and set captives free. ROAR!

4. I stood up against deception and lost my entire family of origin. The pain was excruciating. My whole past was violently ripped out of my life. The emotional blood loss was enormous. It was like having my heart amputated from my soul. When you stand up against any kind of sin, even in “the church” it is lonely until you look at who is walking beside you. Roar Natalie! There are women out there with that same false sense of purpose who need to hear you.

5. Thank you for writing so candidly and honestly. I am greatly encouraged by your posts. I think more women support you than you can possibly realize (like me, I’ve never written to you before).

   • Thank you, Karen. That means a TON to me.

6. Natalie, I just love you! That’s awesome.

   One verse that I always come back to when I think about our purpose for our lives is Micah 6:8:

   He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
   And what does the Lord require of you?
   To act justly and to love mercy
   and to walk humbly with your God.

   To me, that means that we stand up against injustice (we fight for truth), we love mercy (we do it with grace), and we walk humbly before God (we do all with recognition of what God has done for us).

   It is a balance of truth and grace. Too many women only do the grace part, and if we do that, we are actually perpetuating INjustice.

   Sounds like God is doing a great thing in you and through you!

   • Preach it, sister. I love you, too.

7. I really hope any young unmarried woman reading this would hold out for a man who wants a roaring wife. A bold wife. A wife who will ruthlessly shred to pieces LIES. She does not destroy her husband, her family, herself, but LIES. I have often told my husband that if I truly love him I must speak truth, even when it hurts. He appreciates that and has told me so and I breath a sigh of relief, because I know things could have turned out very differently. And with that kind of man, it’s not so hard to want to please him. It’s God’s grace.

   I think the misunderstanding comes when we forget that the old man wars with the new man. We need to be lions when it comes to the fleshly nature. That shouldn’t be confused with how we interact with one another in the Spirit within the body of Christ, with truly God-fearing, Christ-following Believers (not posers and pharisees!).

   I really like your illustration of a garden. After reading the parable of the seeds, I journaled recently that if I tear out all the weeds in my heart’s garden it will seem so barren. You know, just a lot of brown soil. Everyone else’s gardens has all these bright green weeds, even little flowers, all full. But alas they are WEEDS!

   Your garden is beautiful, Natalie, because that rich brown soil will produce lasting fruit and true beauty. It takes real work, it takes time, and it takes a ruthless approach to those weeds. Thank you for inspiring the rest of us (some whom have it so easy in comparison– like me!).

   Praying for you!

   p.s. I confess it’s hard to eat listen to Katy Perry without thinking of “I Kissed a Girl,” but thank you for sharing the song! If only all her songs were that inspiring.

   • oops, “listen to Katy Perry,” not “eat listen.” Typos, ugh. Ha.

     • Lol – you human being, you!

       • I have no problem being a human being except when it comes to English grammar and punctuation! I get the feeling you can relate. I mean- your articles never have typos! I can read your blog without any eye twitches!

   • I’m not familiar with Katy Perry, and I don’t listen to her music. Is she a lesbian? I suppose I rocked a few boats. Sigh. Still…I like this song.

     • I suppose that she is whatever will sell her music. She has been married, to a man who seems like a raging narcissist, but I don’t know past that.

       The singer’s agenda isn’t the point of Natalie’s post. In my opinion KP’s agenda is the same as much of the Evangelical Industrial Complex [EIC] (http://www.christianitytoday.com/parse/2012/february/evangelical-industrial-complex-rise-of-celebrity-pastors.html); make money. KP isn’t the point. I would argue that KP’s agenda (make money) and the EIC’s agenda (make money) might be a little of the point here. Natalie is ROARING against the EIC that sells us endless marriage resources; books, CDs, magazines, DVDs, conferences, and so on. The resources that pressure targets of abuse to try harder, practice purring when roaring would be in order, and give a man the worship that is intended for God, often keep whole families trapped in abuse for generations while believing God is pleased with it. If we can turn that agenda on it’s head and ROAR against it, I’ll like it. But I’ll still make my kids do jumping jacks if I catch them singing KP or her cronies. Could be worse. They could be singing Derek Webb’s song that he wrote about a vow so he’d keep it, except that it didn’t work because songs don’t prevent adultery, surrender to God does. Oopsie. Was that out loud?

       • ROFLOL!

     • No, she’s not. I’m sure it was more for shock value. In fact perhaps she’s even a prodigal! She started off with “Christian music.” Only God knows.

       Keep rocking that boat!!

8. I have been wondering how you have been doing since the last post and I am so glad to see that you are doing good! ROAR !!! Praise God you can share your heart so openly and honestly. Praising God for the Sister’s In Christ that came to your defense as well. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!

   • Oh boy, me too. You ladies are all totally AMAZING.

9. I LOVE that song. I don’t care for Katy Perry, but I agree with your “enjoy the meat, spit out the bones” statement. I also love the song “masterpiece” by Jessie J. I also, don’t care for Jessie J, but that song’s lyrics are awesome. I feel like it can easily be molded to fit the christian life. Just thought you might enjoy that one too!

   • I’ll check out that song!

10. I like to read your posts as you figure out who you are and how you are really supposed to be according to yourself and God. I am cheering for you.

11. Good words here, Natalie. Thank you for them.

    If anyone ever asks you, “What would Jesus do?” Remind them that flipping over tables and chasing false teachers with a whip is within the realm of possibilities.

12. Thank you for this, Natalie. I think it’s important to remember the full picture of women in the Bible. Jael is one of my favorite stories.

13. UPDATE: Carla sent me a private email apologizing for her harsh words. I’ve banned her from commenting here any further, so she asked me to pass her remorse on to the rest of you who were following this thread. I’ve removed her second comment and the replies that followed; however, I’m leaving her initial comment published as is.

14. Natalie,

    About a year ago you did a few posts about what guys and gals are looking for (and NOT looking for) in relationships. After following your blog for the last year, and reading through the many comments, I see that you are not alone in naming abuse and getting recognition for what it is. As a young, unmarried woman, it is unsettling to hear so many married Christian women reply over and over in the comment section-“yes, this is my story too”, “…and me too…for 20 years…”

    How can the current 20-something women be a generation that doesn’t repeat this struggle? I’m relating this back to the articles about dating- specifically what young women are looking for- because I recognize that there is no Mr. Perfect and we won’t marry Jesus…but I don’t desire an abusive marriage. God uses even devastatingly hard relationships for his purposes, yet I know that because God places value on me, being in an abusive relationship is not his desire for me.

    I know there’s no secret formula- as long as we are in a relationship with another human being, abuse is possible- and that’s where our own ability to roar has to be developed. But if abuse- and silenced abuse- is so prevalent in Christian marriages, do you think there are “warnings” or “red flags” we can look out for as young women, to avoid marrying into an abusive relationship?

    If this feels too close to the heart to comment on, I more than understand.

    • This is an excellent question. It’s so important – I want to write a post about it. I do strongly believe there are things you absolutely can and should be looking for when you are getting to know someone or dating. Can you hand on? Time for writing is at an all time low right now. But this topic is definitely at the top of my list right now. I will try to get to it in the next couple of weeks.

      • http://learningbyear.com/youre-not-my-friend-anymore/

        Is a parenting post It like about inoculating children against manipulative tactics. It might be helpful to grown ups as well.

      • Wow! I just read the post that you did in response to this (“Deal Breakers”). I wasn’t expecting quite that detailed of a response- many thanks for the thought and effort that went into it.
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16. Natalie,
    Grace. Grace and peace to you and all others reading this IF you have bitterness, unforgiveness etc.
    And thank you, for sharing.
    God’s Grace is sufficient for all and I think too many of us forget that.
    We forget to let God’s grace just be.
    And you know, there may be times when you feel bitter, or unforgiving, it does not just suddenly stop in each situation, never to be dealt with again.
    As far as forgiveness goes God does call us to forgive, whether someone has asked to be or not.
    As an example,
    I was raped when a teenager, a man I knew I was unlikely to ever see again.
    Sitting in church I heard a sermon preached on this.

    I had been taught to use the 9 laws of interpretation as used by lawyers, scholars and theologians, so I read it in context, understanding who had said it and their cultural background, who they said it to etc.
    And Jesus wants us to forgive.
    I could not do that and I told my pastor so.
    He said he knew that, but that it did not change the verse, and that I would have to ask God for help.
    So, annoyed and ticked off, I asked God for help.

    He did not change my heart straight away, in fact it took about 6 months.
    I did NOT say it was okay, I did not say I had caused it, I said God forgive him for hurting me, because You are the one who will seek justice for me.
    I had to do just the same thing when my nephew was stabbed to death by his fiance 2 years ago.
    If you do not forgive, it is you that you are hurting.

    And just reading His word is not enough, especially in these times.
    We have to HEAR from Him.
    He is always talking, always answering your questions, you just have to learn how to hear Him.
    The Freedom Diaries is a great place to start if you do not know how to hear God.

17. Oh, and we should all roar sometimes.
    I am certainly not a feminist, or PC, neither was Jesus! Hallelujah.
    There will be times, as a child of Christ, I should be roaring like nobody’s business.

    Roar on!

18. I just finished reading “And the Shofar Blew” by Francine Rivers about a pastor’s wife who goes through years of abuse at the hand of her narcissistic husband. Thankfully she stood up for truth and eventually things turned around. It was wrenching to read, and I can’t begin to fathom how painful it is for you who experience abuse first hand. I agree with you Natalie, Christian women shouldn’t be meek little doormats. I never realized before what you were going thru and I hope none of my previous comments were insensitive.

    • Thank you Trisha! Thankfully, people are talking more openly about this issue – and that can only bode well for anyone stuck in that type of abusive relationship. I’ll have to check out that book.

19. Hi Natalie,
    I would like to challenge you to do something – Print out the book of 1 Peter double-spaced. Go through circling all the references referring to Christ. Then underline once all the references to His followers. Then underline twice all the references to those who reject Christ. Just continue to meditate on what kind of spirit Christ calls His followers to. As I’ve been studying through this book I have noticed a very different spirit than the one you are advocating above. I would encourage you to allow God’s Word to transform your thinking, not the words of an artist that has given no indication that she is a following of Christ and His Word. The heart of her song is ME – I’m gonna do whatever I want to make myself happy, I’m gonna come on top (if the heart of the song is rotten both the meat and bones are gonna be rotten). The heart of God’s Word is God’s glory revealed through Jesus Christ sacrificing His life to rescue His rebellious bride. Christ is our example of how we should respond to situations not a Katie Perry song. I want to say more but I have to leave to go somewhere right now. I will just leave you with this Scripture. God’s Word says this is why we are to respond to others in a very different way than the world. Please don’t think that I am advocating abuse of women in the least. I am advocating submission to God’s Word in our attitudes and actions.

    “For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. 22 He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.” 1 Peter 2:21-25

    5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
    6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, 7 casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.
    1 Peter 5:5-7

    • I love God’s Word with every fiber of my being. I have had several Bibles over the years (since I was 7) dog-eared, tear-stained, highlighted, and underlined. And my post stands as is.

      “Jesus, He loves me. He loves me. He is for me. Jesus, how can it be? He loves me. He is for me.”

      He loves each one of us right where we are at. You. Me. All of us. Please, oh please, do not use His Word as a weapon to beat over the heads of people. That isn’t what it’s for. Be at peace.

      • Oh Natalie, are you ever going to get this right?

        If you don’t proof text the way Yesesia does, the EXACT SAME WAY that Yesenia does, you’re just not going to get it! Now, she’s given you very good directions for how to proof text her way. Remember, only use this one epistle. Don’t take the full counsel of God into consideration or try to get anything in context. I know why you don’t want to follow her formula. Perhaps your printer is out of ink. Is that the real issue?

        And the heart of the KP song isn’t ME, it’s “I used to believe lies and now I don’t. And now I am going to tell people about your lies.” I have petitioned the Afters to make a Christian version of Eye of the Tiger, Roar, and Overcomer, wrapped in Romans 8:37 and with a beat we can jog on our treadmills to. I’ll keep you posted about that. If they do it, perhaps we can go back to talking about the real issue rather than KP.

        • Oh dear. Is it safe to laugh?

    • Dear Yesenia,

      Commenters like you are harmful and hurtful and dangerous. A translation of your words is needed to set the record straight.

      Natalie responds correctly and Biblically to commenters like this (goodness I admire you, Natalie!!) She doesn’t defend herself. That job God leaves to her sisters. And we take it seriously.

      Commenters like Yesenia, take note.

      Ellie, thank you for your translation work too, which has taught me A LOT. If you want please correct and adjust my translation as you deem necessary. I’m still getting the hang of this!

      My translation is in BRACKETS. Anything in parenthesis is Yesenia’s comment.

      BEGIN TRANSLATION
      Hi Natalie, [I’ll cut right to the chase because I don’t care about you at all, so I won’t waste my time understanding you or much less loving you. What matters here is me].
      I would like to challenge you to do something [Because you’re the sinner here, you need a challenge, you probably do nothing all day anyway] – Print out the book of 1 Peter double-spaced [I can tell you what to do and treat you like a child, because I am bigger and better and smarter and more spiritual]. Go through circling all the references referring to Christ. Then underline once all the references to His followers. Then underline twice all the references to those who reject Christ [you don’t know how to study the Bible. I do. You have to study the Bible the way I instruct, because I’m bigger and better and smarter and more spiritual]. Just continue to meditate on what kind of spirit Christ calls His followers to [you don’t have the spirit Christ calls His followers to have, I do. I am bigger and better and smarter and more spiritual]. As I’ve been studying through this book I have noticed a very different spirit than the one you are advocating above [I discern the Word of God correctly. You don’t. You are foolish and sinful. I am bigger and better and smarter and more spiritual]. I would encourage you to allow God’s Word to transform your thinking, not the words of an artist that has given no indication that she is a following [sic] of Christ and His Word [You secular, worldly person. But of course since you don’t have any real discernment I will guide you. I am bigger and better and smarter and more spiritual]. The heart of her song is ME – I’m gonna do whatever I want to make myself happy, I’m gonna come on top [actually I’m describing myself, but I can so conveniently project]. (if the heart of the song is rotten both the meat and bones are gonna be rotten). [Because you aren’t capable of discerning the song properly, I must set you straight little child. Shame on you for acting like a mature Christian, which is impossible because I AM BIGGER AND BETTER AND SMARTER AND MORE SPIRITUAL!]. The heart of God’s Word is God’s glory revealed through Jesus Christ sacrificing His life to rescue His rebellious bride [You clearly don’t know the heart of God’s Word, not that I care if you do know, since I’m bigger and better and smarter and more spiritual anyway]. Christ is our example of how we should respond to situations not a Katie Perry song [I know that’s not what you meant, but I’m inventing lies so that I can convince everyone that I’m bigger and better and smarter and more spiritual]. I want to say more but I have to leave to go somewhere right now [you fool, I could rip you to shreds if I wanted, but I have lots of important things to do since I’m a very important person]. I will just leave you with this Scripture [to show you just how much I love the Bible and abide by it, unlike YOU]. God’s Word says this is why we are to respond to others in a very different way than the world [You are not responding according to God’s Word, you are responding like the world would. I know this because I am bigger and better and smarter and more spiritual, of course]. Please don’t think that I am advocating abuse of women in the least [I don’t advocate it since I do it myself. Plus I have to keep my image of spotless spirituality]. I am advocating submission to God’s Word in our attitudes and actions [I am making sure I look and sound reeeaaally spiritual, lest anyone realize I’m actually being accusative and abusive. Have I mentioned I am bigger and better and smarter and more spiritual? You probably need a reminder].
      END TRANSLATION

      I have removed the passages Yesenia quoted; I cannot describe how sickening it is to read God’s precious Word quoted in such a context as her comment. I will not even address the passages she included, such beautiful Treasures from the Bible, used as common fodder for spiritual abuse. It makes me nauseous. Yesenia, have you forgotten that God takes very seriously how we use the Bible? Do you realize what kind of ground you’re treading? Holy ground. Do you think God is indifferent to how you trample such holiness with your filthy sandals? Do you not fear speaking to a daughter of the King the way you have?

      And guess what? The King has other daughters too. Natalie is not alone. So you better back off and leave her be. Go spill your lies in the trash where they belong and repent of your pride.

      • I think these people are “hit and runners.” But the rest of us can enjoy laying bare the dead man’s bones underneath the flowery packaging. Thanks, Julie.

        • Well done Julie.

        • No more lies. Natalie, your posts express your deep love and honor for the Lord. Julie and Ellie, excellent translations and replies! ROAR on, daughter’s of the King!

20. Do you not realize just how much strength it takes to be meek and quiet?
    And when you say that JESUS broke rules and regs, you are only telling part of the truth.
    He clearly says in Mathew 5:17
    “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.”

    He did not come into the world yelling and screaming, no, he came and showed us all what a meek and quiet spirit really is. BUT he was the strongest man you’d ever meet, more courageous and fierce then you could even imagine!

    Now im not trying to say you are entirely wrong, in fact i am saying you are right, in a way.

    God does not want us to “be the INVISIBLE wind beneath some man’s wings.” Or “have our eyes wide shut”

    He wants us to be fierce warriors for his cause, and do you realize what HIS cause IS for a woman? It is to be strong, but meek, Quiet but fierce. Courageous and humble.
    You speak of roaring like a lion but forget the quiet poise and grace a lion has.

    I think you may need to read over Proverbs 31 again to refresh what God has asked of a Woman.

    I am sorry if it seems harsh, but im afraid the meat you are talking about eating is quite rotten indeed.

    I truly do see what you are trying to say though, so please do not think i am just picking. I do understand and agree with some of it. I just want to encourage you to balance out what your saying. After all in Ecc. 8:17 it says:
    It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes.

21. Dear Natalie, This is such a true, and powerful post. Thank you so much for giving beautiful voice to those who have been oppressed and held down by shame that wasn’t theirs to carry and by false charges of bitterness and unforgiveness when they dared to seek help for being abused. That song, Roar, has come to mean something to me, and as I continue to come up out of the fog, its meaning will continue to expand. It’s not about pretty packages with theological bows. There are a lot of shepherds out there on paths that look good, but the sheep hear His voice. Listen to the Holy Spirit, and stand with the oppressed. That is where God is every time. You, precious one, are doing just that.

    • Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. I am privileged and glad to stand together.

22. Relax, Elena. Proverbs 31 was written to a son, not to women. Thanks, Natalie.

23. I know this post is late but I felt led to write.
    Firstly, the Word should never be an excuse for abuse. Eph 5:25 gives the best example to husbands about how to love their wives as Christ loved the church & gave Himself up for her. That is a sacrificial, loving, servant type love. Not a demeaning, abusive, domineering type love. Wives are called to submit to their husbands as we do to the Lord in Eph 5:22. We submit to our husbands out of our obedience to Him! Eph 5:21-33 gives a picture of biblical marriage as a familial prototype of the relationship between Christ & His church. That is a beautiful thing that we need to abide by because it is God’s Word & that is the standard for us as His children. However, as stated earlier it does not mean stay in an abusive relationship. When you read God’s Word you see what He calls husbands to do as well. And when husbands and wives do not obey God’s Word, we are in disobedience & it is wrong.
    Secondly, to look at women in the O.T. & use that as a way to show women should “roar” is not in context. Jael & Esther acted in ways to save their people in times of war, which has nothing to do with husband-wife relationships, nor does it mean these women still didn’t have a gentle, quiet spirit. Esther sought out her husband in a respectful manner. Hannah prayed persistently, which is something Jesus calls us to do in Matt 7:7 & Luke 18:1-8. This also has nothing to do w/ husband-wife relationship or has anything to do w/ a woman roaring. God actually was the one who “roared” because He answered her prayer. Right after Hannah prayed she went home & worshipped God. Abigail was saving her husband and family from being slaughtered; she acted out of wisdom & was pleading for her husband’s life. Timothy’s mom and grandma were being scriptural in teaching Timothy as women are told to teach their children the things of God. I do agree that all women are made differently; however, we are all called to obey God’s Word. I think it’s dangerous to even give off the impression to not follow God’s rules and regulations because that could be leading others into rebellion or deception. God’s Word must be taken as a whole & I’m context. He tells us to be bold and “roar” when spreading His Gospel & Word (2 Cor 3:12, Acts 4:31). But we can’t overlook the scripture that tells us to have a gentle, quiet, submissive spirit.
    I don’t think these verses should be used to condemn a woman to shame & abuse. Just as verses of boldness should not push a woman to step out in a way that is in disobedience to God’s Word. God & His Word are the final authority on all things, not me or anyone else. He knows are hearts & special circumstances; however, He will never call us to disobey His Word! That is deception from the devil who said to Eve in Genesis “did God really say that?” Therefore, God did say all the things that are in His Word and we are called to follow them. We should not stand for abuse & that should be dealt with appropriately! Furthermore, the devil likes to deceive us in thinking God’s Word holds us back, but it doesn’t. It gives us ways we should live to glorify Him!
    God is not a God of disorder but of peace ( 1 Cor 14:33) we as women should abide by His Word & our husbands should abide by it as well to promote the peace God desires. If anyone has an abusive husband, speak out in a scriptural way as seen in Matt 18 and Galatians 6. Do not stand for it, you are loved with an everlasting love by God & He cares for you. Pray & look to Jesus for guidance. Ultimately, it’s the Truth of His Word that shows us the way to go. It’s not His will for us to be in bondage, but to walk in the freedom we have received in Christ. I hope I didn’t offend anyone because I definitely am not trying to. I’m only trying to find a balance as it is in God’s Word, speak the truth in love, and encourage all women to be prayerful, read, follow, & love God’s Word as seen in Psalm 119. It’s only when we seek Him & read His Word that we can battle the deception of the enemy!
    God bless you all!

    • Sheesh. What do I say to that? I feel like my hand got slapped by Mama. God bless me though!

    • Hey johnel, get your own blog. This one is Natalie’s. Make your long-winded posts and comments on YOUR blog.

      Matt 18 is for Christians. Abusers aren’t Christians. Pretending they are hurts everyone, most of all, the abusers.

      And fleeing an abuser IS saving your family like Abigail saved hers! It is honorable. It is just. And you are very pious sounding, but quite wrong.

      • Oh Ellie, you are my hero. And always welcome in my sandbox.

      • Every Christian has their issues. An abusive person who finds Jesus is still abusive. It takes God’s work, grace, and Word to change us all. I’m sorry you feel so offended by my post. I merely said what the Word says, not necessarily what feels good. And that’s exactly what Jesus did.

        Also, Matt 18 is about dealing with sin in the church in a way that Jesus taught us to. I was using that to show how women who are being abused can utilize friends in the church to help them stand up to an abuser if necessary. Also, to say Matt 18 is for abusers is insulting to God’s Word. People using His Word in any way other than what it’s intended is wrong. And yes, what Abigail did was honorable, as David also pointed out. I never disagreed.
        Natalie, it seems that you and your followers have an interesting mentality against those who disagree with some of what you’re saying. Ultimately, I meant no disrespect. I was just trying to show a balance to what you had said. We are all growing in Christ and none of us are perfect. I’m simply trying to show that a balance is necessary to all things. In the same way that submissiveness, gentleness, and meekness all need a balance of strength, boldness, and courage. I was in an abusive relationship before and God has healed me of all the wounds. I used His Word to get me through it and I stood up against it, in the same way you did. But it doesn’t mean we throw all the scripture out that talks about meekness, gentleness, and quietness. Again, I apologize for coming off in Amy offensive way. I definitely wasn’t trying to. I appreciate your boldness

        • Johnele, I have to catch my breath every time a Christian waxes eloquent quoting Scripture and using flowery words that hide covert accusations. It comes across poorly, and it’s hard for anyone to hear what you’re trying to communicate. There is a superior tone that gets tangled up in the message, and people shuffle away in embarrassment and shame.

          I’m fine with disagreement and debate when it’s done with mutual respect. If you want to practice communicating your message in a more palatable way for everyone – a way that doesn’t communicate that others are beneath you because you’ve got the Word down pat and they don’t – I’m all ears. I’m serious about this. How about a do-over? One of the things you may want to work out is how you subtly accuse and shame others with your choice of words. Here are some examples from your last two comments along with my interpretation:

          “Just as verses of boldness should not push a woman to step out in a way that is in disobedience to God’s Word” (“You are twisting verses in order to push women to disobey God.”) This is a serious accusation. Can you back it up with examples from the post?

          “the devil likes to deceive us in thinking God’s Word holds us back” (“The devil is deceiving you, making you think the Word is holding you back.”) Can you back this accusation up with examples from the post?

          “you feel so offended by my post” (“I know how you feel.”) Nobody should tell another human how they feel. The only one who knows is the person themselves. This is boundary invasion and problematic in relationships.

          “I merely said what the Word says, not necessarily what feels good. And that’s exactly what Jesus did.” (“I am only “merely” doing things. They aren’t bad things. In fact, I’m just promoting the Bible rather than what you are promoting which is feeling good. I’m doing what Jesus did. I’m like Him. You? Not so much.”) Where do you get that I promote feeling good over God’s Word? Back that up with examples.

          “Natalie, it seems that you and your followers have an interesting mentality against those who disagree with some of what you’re saying.” (“Natalie, I’m going to disrespect you and speak to you as if you are a cult leader with a following.”) This was just an ugly insult to everyone reading this.

          “Ultimately, I meant no disrespect.” And yet you were disrespectful. This means you succeeded at disrespect even though you didn’t intend to.

          “it doesn’t mean we throw all the scripture out that talks about meekness, gentleness, and quietness.” (“You did this – but I don’t do that.”) Again – can you give examples of where anyone threw that Scripture out?

          When you accuse someone of something (a practice better done sparingly), you need to back it up with examples if you want to have credibility. Merely quoting Scripture over and over and going on and on isn’t helpful. I’ve done this myself. So I know.

          • Well done Natalie! I saw the minimizing and was itching to translate it. Still might.

            Matt 18 is for Christians. Men who pretend to be seeking the Lord at church but who are truly seeking their own glory are not Christians. Abusers who pretend to love Christ but harm their families are not Christians. I hope and pray that they repent and become Christians, but pretending they are only harms them. There’s no “faking it til you make it” here. You don’t fake being a Christian until one day you wake up and are one. Abusers are not Christians.

            • Ellie,

              I don’t think you’re reading my comments. I suggested Matthew 18 as a scriptural guideline that Christian abused women can use to gain help from their churches in getting support to stand against abuse.

          • Thank you for your grace. I in no way meant anything you said about me using eloquent words to hide covert accusations, yet you are also quick to bring on accusations. I do not think you’re a cult leader, but the bully mentality is just as abusive. As i said before, I have areas to grow in. I’m not Jesus, just a follower as you are who’s learning and growing.

            You started off with saying “aren’t Christian women supposed to be quiet, gentle, submissive?” God’s answer is yes! His Word says that. But I don’t disagree that Christian women are also supposed to be bold, strong, etc. I think that it all comes in a balance so we don’t end up being caught up in an abusive relationship or being abusive to others. I am pointing out that it would have been a more well balanced post to say that those scriptures are to be followed, but the scriptures about boldness should be as well. When you say its “a bunch of crock” that comes off as you throwing out those scriptures about submissiveness, meekness, etc.

            You address “roaring” and not the “quietness.” This gives off the impression of all roaring and no quietness because it’s a bunch of crock. If it’s used for abuse then yes it is being taken out of context.

            Also, you talk about those women and Jesus not” following all the rules and regs.” This comment can come off in a way that causes a woman to disobey God’s Word because they can take that as them not having to follow the standards in His Word. However, I agree that it should not be used to justify staying in abusive relationships.

            And yes, accusations should be used sparingly toward all people. You took a lot of my comments and twisted it into believing I was accusing you. I was simply stating my input and certain disagreements with the possible imbalance your post can give off.

            • You thank me for my grace and then accuse me of having a bully mentality? I’m not sure I get that. You’ve stated your opinion: it isn’t a well balanced post, and I’m encouraging women to disobey God’s Word. I think you’re confused on a number of levels, and I’m weary. This is the last comment of yours I will publish on this article. You can comment, and I will read it, but I’m going to spare the rest.

24. Hello Ladies

    I have been searching scripture and spending much time as of latley on the subject of Bibical Womanhood. There are so many different opinions that seem to cause much confusion. I know that I want to be who God has called me to be and I have found the best fondation to build on is God’s Word. Im sure that God in His sovereighty would not have us to be uninformed in an area as important as man/woman conduct and order. I honestly have went back and forth on many of these sort of issues and teachings and Im all ears to all opinions. However I have been expierencing a peace and understanding from the scriptures that have translated into a renewed trust in Gods Word and a peace in my marriage that has begun to branch out to many other areas in my life. This is a very touchy subject that can prick at the wounds inflicted by our common enemy who opperates in and out of church but I feel it important to always work for the Prince of Peace, understand and speak His word and not allow our wounds and opinions to cause conflict in church, home and marketplace. I have respect for all opinions and will state my own at times but I think it better to start as you did by stating the scripture and going from there. I respect you and Im sure that your life’s testimony has given you much insight, please talk scripture and life with me. You started with Aren’t Christian women supposed to be quiet? Gentle? Submissive? Eye’s wide shut? The soft, invisible wind beneath some man’s wings? The Bible does say that a Christian woman should be gentle, submissive as a standard then it has many examples of specific circumstances that God Himself or women as their own choice operated differently. I don’t recall scriputre or any fully Bible inspired teacher saying women should have eyes wide shut or the soft invisible wind beneath some mans wings. I believe the first part of your statment to be true but can you please tell me the inspiration to second part of your statement. Without explation I assume these comes from your own personal testamonies and without explaining can be viewed as a blanket statment to Christian womanhood and our views towards men and the Bible. In the Bible I dont find the second part of your statement to be in unity with the respect that I see shown towards Women by Scripture and also the respect shown by Godly men and husbands. What are your thoughts Sister? Like you, I’m just someone trying to find a balance in truth.

    • My rhetorical question at the beginning of the post was meant to make a point. The point was that some people who like to perpetuate evil (please make a special note of that – we are not talking about godly men and women here – I had hoped that was crystal clear, but maybe not?) want women to focus only on the verses in the Bible that encourage women to be agreeable and to ignore the Scriptures that encourage women to be truth tellers.

      When I wrote this post, I was trying to communicate that women need to be able to stand up against evil and tell the truth when necessary. But for some reason a few have taken it to mean that women should become lions.

      I give up.

      • “The point was that some people who like to perpetuate evil … want women to focus only on the verses in the Bible that encourage women to be agreeable and to ignore the Scriptures that encourage women to be truth tellers.”

        THIS.

        This is crystal clear to those who are willing to see it. Some aren’t ready. For some it will shatter their world to consider that the ones they have followed have sold them false hope. But it needs to be said. Early and often.

        Don’t give up. People need to hear the truth. What they do with it is their choice.

        • “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.” There’s a Bible verse for ya from Matt.

      • Hi Sister Natalie, not sure if your reply was to me or the other sister that you were speaking to. If you were speaking of me I do not assume that you were calling women to be lions. I looked at the pic with the attached text and song as helps to your article, but I do not assume the worst thats why I was asking. Dont give up sister, If its Gods Word and truth that you stand and speak for, stand firm. As you quoted before the wicked flee but the righteous are bold as a Lion. Christians in scripture may or may not roar, but fact, we serve the God that does, so when we are speaking Gods word we should be as the scripture says to be, at least Bold as a Lion. Looking for Women that speak Gods Word in Truth and Love Im glad to be in conversation with you and I am looking to understand your teaching. ? So you were not calling wrong or belittling some of the very true and beneficial commands in scripture such as humility, the correct kind of submission and quietness and gentleness? You were saying that In the context of an evil abuser women are to roar or speak out? Sorry to hear about your past abuse, Im sure the Lord was greatly grieved! I was asking before and now about the second part of your rhetorical question were those thoughts and your abuse the result of a false teaching or teacher that used the Bible to allow and promote, so in return we can roar or speak against them with the Truth of Gods Word. In the Bible abuse is wrong. I cant think of one scripture or creditable minister that would disagree. In fact the scriptures are too many to list and abuse would be clearly condemed by anyone reading scripture from moses, to Jesus, to his Apostles and throughout the New Testament church. Down with abuse and praise to our Lords Word and Love

        • Ugh, you ladies (Johnele & Tracie) coming here commenting all holy-sounding, but you don’t know Natalie. Why don’t you follow her blog for several years before pretending to understand what she’s saying? Your assumptive, accusatory comments are wrong. You have no idea how blind and proud you are but you act like you’re all humble and open. You remind me of Roboam, if you’re truly open, try closing your mouth and actually listening. I’m not this grown up woman who’s got it all together, but Natalie’s life has deeply impacted me, and I’m one of many, and people like Tracie & Johnele simply aren’t welcome here.

          Natalie, you are full of grace toward these people, the love of Jesus shines through you. I’m so grateful for your example. People like Tracie and Johnele may never learn, but wow I sure do learn listening to your responses to them! And bravo for deciding not to post anymore comments like that here. We VW sisters love you, Natalie!!

          • <3

          • Julie Im confused about your reply to me and Natalie was that your reply to my questions or a support of her comments ? Julie your right, I have been a Christian for many years trying to learn and seek Gods Word but I have not followed this blog for many years, thats why I asked sincere questions for understanding. I also strongly support your defense of mislead abuse victims!!! Did I offend you in any way? Julie you say “I speak holy-sounding” The Christian God is Holy, He has ministers that can say nothing but Holy Holy Holy 24\7, His Word is the Holy Scripture and He calls His people to be Holy and yes act and speak Holy. Ive been far from holy in past times and Im trying daily to grow closer to the Holy God and follow His Word so Im not offended by remark. Julie you say “I am not welcome here” and you also said I should “shut my mouth” That was rude. Ive never heard those type of remarks from one Christian to another even from Jesus Himself, besides Him telling peter that satan was speaking through him because he was speaking his own opinion not Gods. Julie you pulled a name from scripute and out of Bible context you call me Roboam. Roboam did not follow the advise of counselors that told him to speak good words but instead added abuse. The good words is Gods Word in truth and love and not adding abuse. Roboam sin and failure was trying to please God, men, self and worship idols at the same time. Is that what I have done? If I have, please tell me so I can repent, I only want to please God and follow His Word. Julie I looked past the pictures, song, comments and everthing else that comes from mans/womans opinions and focused on Gods Word and I’m trying to ask questions. I am a Christian and Im assuming you are also. We are to respect each other and learn to follow Gods Word together, that is at the heart of my words if you care to look. Care to start again?

            • OK the rest of you – I’m going to demonstrate a few abuser tactics in my response to Johnele/Tracie (they have the same IP address.) An abuser often tries to stir up trouble and lay responsibility and guilt on the other party by doing this:

              “Johnele/Tracie, I can’t believe how mean you are. (Stomp stomp) My sweet little self is so confused by you. I’m only trying to help because I’m a sincere sister. I’m only trying to be holy as my holy God is holy. (pouty lip) I’m not offended, but I’m going to go on and on with my ranting. Love, truth, worship. I’m going to quote some Bible verses now so you think I’m spiritual. God’s Word. Should, should, should. I’ll bet you won’t be able to tell the difference between me and a mature Christian because I’m saying words from the Bible. (sly grin) You are rude. We are to respect each other. You are rude and mean. My heart is this. My heart is that. You are wrong and rude. We are to learn to follow God together. Sister, sister, sister, blessings to you! Smiley face and Jesus fish.”

              If anyone is offended by this – then read all of Johnele’s and Tracie’s comments to get a clearer understanding. On second thought, don’t bother wasting your time. I’m blocking that IP address now. So long, JT.

            • Note how abusers put words in people’s mouths. I said “you should close your mouth,” and the abuser claimed that I said (and she put quotation marks) “you should shut your mouth.” I said “you remind me of Roboam,” and she said that I “called her Roboam.” So blatantly twisted. Abusers HAVE to twist our words in order to give the appearance that they are totally in the right.

              Natalie, thank you for sharing your life with us, because of you God opened my eyes to see the emotional abusers in my life and how to stand firm in the truth.

            • Thanks for pointing that out. We can all work together to expose this kind of deception!
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