In my last post, we talked about the fact that submission is for anyone and everyone who desires harmonious relationships. Submission is a cooperative attitude of love and respect for others. When a husband or employer or parent or neighbor sins, asks us to sin, or desires to cause someone else to sin, we don’t “submit” to that. We respectfully decline. So we maintain an honoring attitude as we refuse to give them what they want.
The reason submission is so unpalatable to people, especially women, is because of all the “Christian” lies that swirl around it. Submission itself is a beautiful thing that enhances human relationships. But here are some examples of how people take it, twist it into a lie, and fling it around like a weapon that can (and does) encourage and perpetuate abuse of women and children. In these examples, the person in “authority” is not asking the “underling” to disobey God or to sin, but they are using the concept of submission to manipulate others, catering to their own selfish desires.
When you are reading these examples, have in the back of your mind these words from Scripture while asking yourself, “Who is sinning in this example?” Many would point to the woman placed in the underling position and say she was sinning for refusing to say “Yes Maam” or “Yes Sir” to the one who has placed themselves in the authority position. When we see the examples juxtaposed to Scripture, the truth becomes a little more clear.
“And Jesus called them to him and said to them, “You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,and whoever would be first among you must be slaveof all. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” (Mark 10:42-45)
“Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 2:3-5)
“Love is patient, love is kind, love is not jealous, it does not boast, it does not become conceited, it does not behave dishonorably, it is not selfish, it does not become angry, it does not keep a record of wrongs, it does not rejoice at unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” (I Cor. 13)
A Hairy Armpit Loving Man
1. A man likes his women with hairy armpits and long fingernails painted pink. He tells his wife she must refrain from shaving while making sure to keep her nails long. And remember the pink. If she fails to do this, he has a fit and tells her she’s a loser (and some other things).
The “Submit Lie” tells her she is a rebel practicing witchcraft (rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, remember) if she doesn’t do all her persnickety husband desires. As she paints her nails pink, she feels guilty, unloved, and unseen.
A Very Important and Concerned Pastor’s Wife
2. A young woman blogs about why she does or doesn’t let her kids watch Disney movies. (It doesn’t really matter which way she goes on this one, the story is the same.) The pastor’s wife sits down with her and tells her she shouldn’t be blogging. She’s too young to have any kind of influence on anyone. She might say something that dishonors their church, er, God. She might write about something that the pastor’s wife disagrees with. “Basically, quit blogging. You are an insignificant blot on the face of the planet with nothing to say to anyone, unlike me, a Very Important Pastor Wife Person.” (Can you see the Wemmickness in this story?)
The Submit Lie tells her that since the Pastor Wife Person is older (automatically makes you wiser, duh), and also married to a Pastor Person, she is an automatic authority. Especially if the Pastor Person gave her orders to gag the Blogger Woman. Therefore it’s a no-brainer. Time to close down the blog and take up rock painting. She feels a loss of joy and purpose.
A Principal Who Always Believes the Best
3. A teen aged girl goes to her private school’s principal to report that she thinks one of the teachers might be sexually involved with one of the girls in her class. He firmly warns her about gossip and slander as well as dirty thinking. She has no proof. Only something she’s heard that is now being denied and covered up. Is she trying to bring down an entire ministry to families in her community? To sully the good name of a godly teacher? He tells her she is to quit thinking—and most certainly talking—about such depraved things and focus on whatsoever things are pure and holy, as all nice girls who want to please God do.
The Submit Lie tells her she needs to go to class and shut up. She feels guilty and dirty, for some odd reason.
What Submission is Not
Submission is not hiding the sins of others in authority. Submission is not catering to the selfish whims of selfish spouses. Submission is not doing everything any Very Important Person tells you to do. If that were the case, then yes, submission would definitely be a weak, spineless, disgusting, degrading, demeaning thing.
But it isn’t submission. It’s cowardice and confusion; the result of abuse and shaming.
Do you see that the only one being unsubmissive in the above examples is the authority figure? They are refusing to submit to God. But many women put in those situations would automatically feel like they were the sinful one.
What Submission Can Look Like
Let’s look at those examples again and see how the women could have a submissive attitude of cooperation and respect while not giving in to the foolish whims of others.
1. The wife with the hairy-armpit, pink-fingernail loving man could say, “Honey, I know you like those things, but I don’t. I prefer to shave and keep my nails short so I can change diapers and mix meatloaf without getting poop and raw beef stuck in them. I trust you married me for me. Not for my hairy armpits and long nails. I so appreciate your understanding why I can’t do that right now. I would be fine with painting my nails pink though whenever you’d like to plan a date night for us. How about that?”
If the husband proceeds to give her a black eye for that OR calls her names OR tells her she is a rebellious, unsubmissive woman wearing the pants of the family, then she needs to wonder if she is in an abusive relationship. He’s obviously not doing his part to love her the way Christ loves the Church. If these kinds of behaviors are his habit , she needs to get help. Sometimes her church will help, and sometimes, incredibly, they’ll side with the abuser and tell her the same things he’s telling her. Now she’s got an abusive husband AND an abusive church to deal with.
In cases of physical abuse, she can (and should) call 911 or go to the nearest woman’s shelter and report her husband. This may be seen as “unsubmissive” to some, but I say it’s tough love. Letting someone stay stuck in their sin is unloving if we see sin for what it really is: separation from an intimate relationship with God. The Bible says He disciplines those HE LOVES. If we love one another, we will be truthful about sin instead of covering it up and pretending it isn’t there. If a husband sows hate and violence, he ought to reap jail time and therapy. Period.
2. The blogger could say to the Concerned Pastor Person’s Wife, “I appreciate your concern about these things, but I’ve talked this over with my husband, and he has encouraged me to develop my writing skills in this way. I want to honor God and my husband by becoming all that God wants me to be in this area. If you find out that someone in our church is uncomfortable with something I’ve written, feel free to have them talk to either my husband or myself about it directly.” (I got this example from a real life situation – hat tip to my friend. You know who you are.)
3. The student could say, “I realize how this appears on the outside, but I’m only trying to help both the teacher and this girl. I do not take pleasure in bringing this to your attention, and I would not have spoken up if I didn’t believe there was something to what I heard and what I’ve observed in class between the two of them. I trust that you will take me seriously, but if you will not investigate this, I will involve other adults who will. I certainly hope I’m wrong about all of this, but please remember that if I’m right, and it comes out some other way while you had prior warning but refused to investigate, that will create even more problems for this ministry and this community.”
Sometimes we need to be courageous and submit to God instead of Wemmicks. But in order to have courage, we have to be able to see the situation clearly from God’s perspective. And we have to know that God is bigger than people.
What if you are a wife, and your husband is not asking you to sin; he just doesn’t agree with you on things. How do you come to a final decision on something when you’ve reached an impasse? That’s Part Three.
Question: Have you ever had to respectfully say “no” to someone in authority? Share some of your real life examples with us! You can leave a comment by clicking here.
THANK YOU!!!! and yes, part 3!!!!!!
I am very much looking forward to your next post. I’m constantly thinking about what I should do. My husband is not asking me to sin but there are plenty of other situations that occur. If I speak up I “wear the pants in this family” or ” I don’t let him parent” if I don’t than I live with the concequences. I spend a lot of time wondering what the right answer is. ( The answer he wants me to say to avoid conflict). I want off this ride!
Have you ever read Foolproofing Your Life by Jan Silvious? Check out my “About” page for more book recommendations for problematic marriage relationships. Your situation, if it is what I think it is, is very common (I’m trying to read between the lines here). A wife should be able to give respectful input without being defined, accused, or manipulated. With some spouses, it doesn’t matter how honoring or kind the input is – it’s just the fact that you gave it that brings on a subtle, covert abuse of sorts. This is not healthy for either spouse. If one spouse is always right and never sorry for anything or open to any feedback (because, of course, they are always right) – that’s a serious problem. The Foolproofing book will really help you sort through what to do in those situations.
Sounds like a great book! I’m loving this series.
This is Truth! Thank you for helping me understand. Please give us Part 3! Blessings!
What about when the husband and wife disagree on a spiritual issue that involves parenting? Such as whether or not to baptize their child as an infant. Even when they have both discussed and prayed and researched together, and still come to different conclusions, how can one party submit without abandoning their spiritual convictions? Should the wife forfeit her doctrinal/spiritual convictions in order to submit to the husband?
In matters that do not involve salvation (like this one), there may be room for compromise on either side. Ideally, each person would evaluate (humbly, before God) what their motives are in having their way on this issue. If one comes to the conclusion that it ultimately doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, and God gives them grace, then perhaps that one could bend to the other’s wishes.
If the issue is so great in both of their minds that neither one can compromise, then they may want to invite a wise third party to help them navigate the decision making process. In my opinion, for something that involves a spiritual component (not the purchase of a living room couch), and is a huge deal for both parties, a mutual decision should be made with outside help if necessary.
For lesser issues, like the purchase of that couch, one party would need to submit to the other. It may be the wife or the husband, depending on different factors in the relationship. I do not believe that for things like this the wife needs to be the one to always give up her desires. (Women submit.) That isn’t a loving, balanced relationship, and no man who is loving his wife as Christ loved the church will demand that. Jesus wasn’t a self-centered, self-pleasing despot, and He is the model of God-honoring behavior for all of us whether we are male or female.
Marriage instructions don’t trump all the other relationship instructions in God’s Word. When men lead and love the way Christ did, women truly do find joy in voluntarily submitting when they need to. God put all those checks and balances into the marriage relationship for a reason. We can’t ignore either part or the whole ball of wax melts.
Hi Natalie,
First I want to thank you for your blog. It has been a tremendous encouragement to me and has helped me to question legalistic tendencies that I’ve held onto. I am especially enjoying your “Deprogramming…” series.
I have a question about something you’ve said in this post. To use your example, if a husband wanted his wife to not shave her armpits, while that could be a selfish request, the wife would not be sinning if she stopped shaving. Ephesians 5:24 says the wives are to submit to their husbands in everything. We know from other Scriptures that a wife does not have to sin if her husband tells her to, so “everything” in verse 24 would be excluding sin. So what passage(s) would suggest that a woman would not have to submit to her husband in that sort of a situation–a situation where the husband may have selfish motives, but is not asking/telling the wife to sin?
Thank you. I look forward to Part III.
No, of course the wife would not be sinning to do as her husband wished and not shave her armpits. And in a healthy marriage relationship where there is mutual honor, respect, submission, love, kindness, etc., if a husband really longed for that (didn’t demand it or have a hissy fit if she said “I don’t think so,”) it might be the best, most God-honoring thing for the wife to bless him that way.
BUT, a husband who repeatedly asks his wife to do things she is uncomfortable with, and then rages either openly or passively aggressively when she says “no,” is not obeying God’s Word. He is being selfish and unloving. He needs to repent. He will never understand the depravity and ugliness of his selfishness if his wife refuses to hold up a mirror to him. She is not being a good “helper” in that case, is she? She’s enabling him to live in sin. (Again, I’m talking about chronic selfishness, not an honoring request for something unusual here and there.)
As far as Scriptures to back this up: Matt. 18:15-17; Gal. 6:1; Titus 3:10-11; The entire book of Proverbs explains how to handle fools. There are a gazillion verses, actually, that talk about foolish people and what to do in our interactions with them. How did Jesus handle fools (Pharisees were fools)? If a woman is married to a person like this, she needs to see what Scripture says about that. But I do not believe she is helping herself, her spouse, or their children, by pretending all is well when it is clearly a sick situation.
In our relationships with one another we are to be open, honest, vulnerable, and transparent. When someone is being a bully, the just and merciful thing to do is to call it for what it is. A woman who allows herself to be bullied and teaches her children that this is the “Christian” thing to do is not giving them a true picture of God. I know kids who have completely rejected Christianity because the dad pushed his weight around while the mom “submitted” (that’s not really submission, remember) and said or did nothing out of fear or because her church was also bullying her into “submission.” I’m sorry, but God is not a proponent of misogyny. Yet, because of misapplication of His Word, hundreds of thousands of people reject Him thinking that what they saw illustrated by Christians is a true representation of Him. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The “in everything” in Ephesians is obviously not saying “Women, do everything your husband commands you to do.” If that were the case, it would contradict the Bible in other places that teach us Christ Himself is our Lord, not people. We obey Christ above all human relationships. When a human contradicts Christ, we don’t submit to the human. Furthermore, submit doesn’t mean “obey.” In Luke 2 when Jesus was a boy, the Bible says He submitted to his parents, yet He also corrected them and didn’t give in to their demands.
“In everything” most likely, because of the context and what the Bible teaches in other texts, means “in all areas of life.” It is a general statement telling wives not to pick and choose which areas they should lovingly defer in.
Well, you could talk about the Pastor Wife Person from a different perspective, and talk about the people who think she’s disobeying God because she doesn’t get involved with more stuff at the church, doesn’t do visitation, and doesn’t (oh, the irony) keep a blog for the instruction of younger women. This particular Pastor Wife Person is also a home schooling mother and grandmother whose first priority is at home, but I’m also available when my Pastor Person husband needs my company while counseling another woman. Pastor Wife Persons are often caught between a rock and a hard place. Kudos to the friend who gave such a gracious response about the blogging.
Yes. And forgive me if I painted with a broad stroke there. Not all Pastor Wife Persons (thank goodness) are like this one was.
This example #2 also seems like a fabulous place for a husband to step in and together, with his wife, exercise some spiritual discernment about how this is being handled…there are certainly enough examples in Scripture about how to handle disagreements of this sort, between believers who are obviously in a certain congregation. As you portray it, this is lousy advice from a nosey woman–seems like a great time to exercise Matt. 18 (I think? About how to handle disagreements…) If this “guidance” is something that other people want to back up, in an in-person meeting involving the husband of the woman (women? maybe?) in question, this may be a good time to exercise discernment about what kind of leaders are being chosen.
Okay, Natalie, you’ve struck gold with part 1 and 2 of this title. If I had had this kind of submission modeled for and taught to me as a girl, I may have been a very different woman/wife. I don’t KNOW that I would be different because of my selfish nature, but I may have thought about married life a little differently and had had something to aim for.
Refreshing!
Looking forward to Part 3.
Thanks again for the work you’ve put into writing this series, Natalie. I know how hard it is to cover your topic while trying to avoid miscommunication and intent. Hard stuff.
I so appreciate how you are dealing with this subject. Submission takes on so many avenues including: personality, background, faith, etc. We forget that submission goes both ways. In 1 Peter 3:8-9, he calls “all” to be harmonious, sympathetic, humble, etc. And in Ephesians 5:21, Paul reminds us to “be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.” He then goes on to describe each persons role: wives, husbands, children, fathers, slaves, masters. It’s so easy to separate one from the other, forgetting that they interact, cross over, one person to another.
Of course, this doesn’t mean I can ignore the “wife” scriptures, but if we are called to rebuke, reprove, and bear up our brother in Christ, I must take this to mean even my husband. Add to that, all the other biblical commands: speak truth in love, do nothing from selfishness, be humble, esteem others higher than yourself, and the list goes on!
Oh, how Scripture can seem so complex, yet it is at the same time, simple! We simply bow the knee, knowing we can do nothing right on our own strength. We need the Holy Spirit to guide and direct us. We need God’s strength and not our own.
One thing I would consider in your examples, is the tone in which they’re given. No, I don’t have long, pink fingernails and I do shave, but….possibly a couple in this type of marriage are only reflecting choices made somewhere in their background. That maybe he’s not persnickety, just has a preference. Just because a husband asks his wife to do something we consider radical, it’s not always out of pure selfishness. This is why we each need to be careful about comparing ourselves, our marriages, our families to others. What is one person’s nightmare in marriage is another’s history and they’re okay.
I do get your main message, and I only write to help someone who might miss this point, that we can’t think one person is soooo submissive and her husband is sooooo great that it makes it, somehow, easy. We each must come before the Father to discern if our frustrations with submission stem from our own selfishness or our husband’s. Then, and only then, can we really know what course to take.
Great discussion!