My Take on the Ken Ham/Bill Nye Debate

My Take on the Bill Nye/Ken Ham Debate - Visionary Womanhood

Bill Nye the Science Guy! We checked out his videos from the library all the time when my boys were little (15 years ago!) and learned so much from them. But he rejects his Creator, and that’s tragic. It may appear to the secular world that this ignorance of the Creator actually helps advance science, but the truth is (whether it sounds plausible and “wise” or not) that it hinders the advancement of science. Maybe one day we’ll get to find out how. In the meantime we do know this:

For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (I Cor. 1:25)

I did not have time to watch the debate. I’ve read some commentary, both from a Christian standpoint as well as a secular standpoint, so may I say a few things in knee jerk reaction?

I’m glad the debate took place. Paul took a stand in the public forum in Greece. Christians should take their place there as well. Our “ideas” (as they might call them – really God’s little “ideas” after all – no biggie) are just as valid as anyone else’s, and they ought to be represented.

But the premise of our argument is God. There is a Creator. That’s where we start – and we build from there. So while it’s good to have the discussion, we also have to recognize that if the premise is totally different on each side, there will never be a meeting of minds. Ever.

On one side you have a little ignorant Wemmick pointing to the hill where the Woodcarver lives and saying, “He made us! No! Really! He did!” On the other side you have a little ignorant Wemmick pointing to the…well…jeepers, he’s not pointing to anything I guess, saying, “We are a cosmic accident with no purpose or meaning other than what we make of our brief existence on this accidental planet in an accidental universe! No! Really! We all come from nothing!”

Neither one really knows FOR SURE, for sure. Do they? Not really. We don’t know FOR SURE, for sure until we leave this planet. Then we get to find out which ignorant Wemmick – both putting their faith in a theory – was right.

The Bill Nye Way

So let’s think about this. Since Bill Nye is into “hypothetical,” let’s play that game for a minute. Let’s say – hypothetically – that Bill Nye the Wemmick Guy is right. We come from nothing. There is no Mind behind us. No Intelligence behind the billions – no – kajillions of complexities that make up planet earth (not to mention the universe).

In that case, there is no reason behind our existence. There is no point of you or me. Who cares if we live or die? Who cares if we are noble or depraved? Who cares if we love or hate? I mean, people DO care – but why? They have no reason to under this theory. And some actually live consistently with their worldview and don’t. (Bill Nye, by the way, does not live consistently with his worldview. He’s a nice chap who desires to do good in this world with his life. He tries to live by a Christian worldview while intellectually subscribing to something else.)

If he’s right—when we all die, we all rot. No matter what we believed. End of story.

The Creator Way

Let’s say now – hypothetically, of course – that the other ignorant Wemmick is right. Someone did make the Universe. Someone bigger than us is “out there.” Watching us. There is a reason for our existence. We were born with meaning and purpose. We have destiny. When we were created, we were created for something beyond anything we could understand with finite minds. We were created for eternity.

Let’s just say the Bible really IS the book that Creator had written up to tell us about Himself. Let’s say that the Wemmicks who read God’s book and believe it and live by it are on the right track. They aren’t the fools, after all.

If he’s right—when we all die, those that believed get to be with the One they believed forever. Beginning of new story. Eternal story. Destiny.

Those who didn’t, don’t. End of story. Again.

So let’s summarize.

If Bill’s belief system (faith in nothing) is wrong, he’s done for when he dies. If Bill’s belief system is right, he’s done for when he dies.

If the other Wemmick’s belief system (faith in a Creator) is wrong, he’s done for when he dies. If the other Wemmick’s belief system is right, he’s got a future and a hope.

Jeepers. From where I’m standing, I’d say the faith of the other Wemmick is more strategically placed.

I’ll roll the dice, look at the incredible world around me, and place my bets on a Creator. How about you?

Natalie Klejwa is a Wemmick, loved by the Woodcarver, wife of 22 years to Joe, and mother to 9 Wemmicks ages 2-20. She is a business owner (Apple Valley Natural Soap), founder and administrator of the Visionary Womanhood blog, publisher and contributing author of Three Decades of Fertility, You Can Do it Too! 25 Families Share Their Stories, and The Heart of Simplicity: Foundations for Christian Homemaking.

You can hear her being interviewed on Kevin Swanson's Generations with Vision radio program.

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12 thoughts on “My Take on the Ken Ham/Bill Nye Debate

  1. Funny. I’ve been working on this from the viewpoint of modern physics lately, and it always boils down to the same thing, doesn’t it? A book I reviewed on GoodReads recently puts it very well.

    But I wouldn’t say you’re rolling the dice if by that you mean that you are taking a leap of irrational faith. After all, most western science has its roots in a Christian world view, and most scientists until this century were Christians. Science makes a whole lot more sense if you believe a Creator than if you don’t.

  2. I keep wondering, why, if Bill Nye is so keen on scientists being willing to poke holes in each other’s theories, does it bother him so much that creationists keep trying to poke holes in evolutionary theories? Isn’t that how science is done? You say something, I test it, you test it, we compare notes? I see a problem with your thinking, you address it? If Nye really believes that science is a self-correcting process, why even worry about whether creationism is viable? Evolution skeptics still serve a scientific purpose by helping other scientists find the holes in their thinking. But as he demonstrated, the only acceptable evolutionist response to creationists, even to solid scientific criticism from them (and it is out there), is “nanananaIcanthearyou” because the idea that there might be holes in an evolutionist’s thinking is just unfathomable. And Nye thinks *he’s* the reasonable one. Sad.

  3. Your conclusion reminds me of what my Dad says (my poor paraphrase): If there is a God, and we obey Him, we go to Heaven; don’t obey Him and go to Hell. If there isn’t a God, we lose nothing by obeying Him; but, when we die we’re like old Rover and dead all over. Personally, I’d rather not gamble with my after-life. If there’s a possibility of Heaven or Hell, I choose Heaven! =)

  4. I’ve never really found any conflict between Creation and evolution. The Bible says “the earth was without form, and void”. Scientists say there was “primal soup” (although they never explain who opened the can!). The Bible says God created the fish of the sea. Scientists say that life began in the sea. Next came the land animals, and finally people. I believe that for a totally illiterate civilization to “get it right” is obviously a sign of Inspiration.

    I do NOT believe it is within the human pay-scale to tell God He only has 24 hours for a day. All the time in the world is His, and if he wants to call a million years “one day” He can certainly do so.

  5. That’s an interesting way to think about it, but it’s not really accurate. In the real world, as much as Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in God/The Woodcarver, there isn’t any physical evidence that he exists.

    So, maybe instead the Woodcarver Wemmick (Bob?) found a cave painting that tells all about the Woodcarver, and Bob thinks to himself, “This is really convincing! I like this!” Bob then goes over to the skygazing Wemmick (Joe?) and says, “Hey, I found this really awesome thing that says the Woodcarver made the universe!” And Joe’s like, “Hey, that’s awesome! But how do you know that it’s true?” Bob says, “It’s really convincing.” Joe says, “Wow, that’s still great! I’m happy for you! But if you don’t mind, I’m going to keep looking for answers, just in case.” And then Bob and Joe high-five, go their separate ways, and everyone lives happily ever after.

    • There isn’t any physical evidence He exists? Just the fact that we’ve got billions of brain cells firing in such a way as to enable us to make an argument against Him is evidence He is there.

      One argument says “first God – then Creation.” Another argument says “first nothing – then the universe and the infinite complexities it holds.” That kind of faith is WUUAAAAYYY deeper and ginormous than my puny faith. I just can’t have faith in that. Too illogical. I’m too captivated by the art of this planet. Too in awe. Too in love.

      “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world” (Psalm 19:1-4).

      If my faith is unfounded and I come to the end of my short life and find that I’m wrong – I’ve got nothing to lose, (and by the way, Bob and Joe don’t live happily ever after in the scenario described above. Nobody does.)

      If you’re wrong, precious and miraculous woman – Kate…the consequences are tragic – and eternal. Oh Kate, consider.

      “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” (Psalm 14:1)

      I’ve got one more piece of evidence He exists. At least it is evidence enough for me. I know Him personally. And Kate, tonight I will be praying for you by name – that one day you will also know Him personally. Because He knows every cell in your body. Every tear you cry. Every raging emotion you’ve ever felt. Every lonely night. Every wrong that every creepy Wemmick has ever done to you. He sees you Kate. He is no little demi-god.

      He is the God Who is THERE.

  6. Okay, how about another parable?

    After their discussion, Bob and Joe go their separate ways. But Bob is bothered. Bob thinks that the Woodcarver is really great, and he’s quite put out that Joe doesn’t see that, so Bob decides to go back over to Joe and have a talk.

    “Joe, I want to chat with you about the Woodcarver. He’s really great, and he does a lot of really great stuff. If you’d just look closer at the cave paintings, you’d get it.”

    Joe, being a reasonable Wemmick, agrees, and they go off to study the cave paintings.

    “Gee, Bob,” Joe says, “These are pretty cool, and I can see your point, but I’m still not convinced. Maybe the stuff that the cave paintings said happened can be explained some other way. Maybe we just haven’t figured out how to explain it yet. I think I’m going to keep looking to see if I can find those explanations.”

    Bob is disappointed. Bob is friends with Joe, and he wishes they could share the Woodcarver. “I really, really wish you would see it my way.”

    Joe says, “Maybe someday. I’m just not convinced yet. But I think you’re a good Wemmick, and I like and respect you, so I hope that we can agree to disagree about this.”

    Bob, being a reasonable Wemmick, agrees, and they go and play a friendly game of checkers.

    • Yes! Let’s DO play checkers, Joe. And yes, you keep looking. You won’t mind if I keep talking to the Woodcarver about you? Because it isn’t “my way” I’m hoping for you. I’m just a dorky Wemmick, and if you follow me, we’ll likely fall off a cliff together. ;)

      It’s His.

    • One more thought. I used to play checkers with a good friend many years ago – her name was…Joe. She was a particularly intelligent friend – a philosophy major – very stimulating conversationalist. We agreed to disagree for several years and enjoyed one another’s company a great deal in spite of our differences in this area. She used the same language you are using. She wanted to keep looking. She was young and had a whole life ahead of her. She didn’t want to be duped by the first few things that came along. I respected that and couldn’t blame her.

      One Christmas I sent her a book by C.S. Lewis called Mere Christianity. ( Very few people these days will read a book like that, but it is one of the best, if not the best book on the subject. (Well, aside from the cave paintings, of course – my favorite being the gospel of John and the Psalms.)

      That was her catalyst. She found Him. I’m not saying it would help you – but if you did eventually read it, I’d love to hear your thoughts. It’s not a big book – just a small, unassuming paperback. With brain dynamite inside.